Mustang GT350 Forums banner
1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I have been doing a lot of research on the internals. I see Ford used Mahl pistons, forged crank, and what appears to be powdered rods.
What the heck Ford? It can be seen on the cutaway motor. Did they just grab some rods for mock up and then go to something else in production?
I sure hope Ford went to some better rods like the old terminator motors. Surely they know people are going to push these motors to the limit.
Anyone have any insight on this? Please tell me I am wrong!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
I'm not an engineer so the following is not worth two cents. But I'd wondered, too.....

My thought on the powdered rods is that the decision to use them started with the flat plane crank. From what I've read, flat plane cranks need a very accurately weight-balanced and matched piston & rod combo in order to avoid motor-damaging vibrations. FPC engines are much more susceptible to this situation than engines with ordinary 90-degree cranks. I would think that it is easier for a mass-producer like Ford to manufacture a very accurately weight-matched set of connecting rods using the powdered process than a forged process. Big-time racers pay a lot of money to balance their engines, and this type of costly and time-consuming balancing just wasn't in the budget for the 350 GT.

Speaking about the engine's internals, the big deal, of course, the is flat plane crank. I've been wondering why it hasn't seen more use up to this point. The attendant vibration problem likely has something to do with this and explains why only elite manufacturers like Ferrari use them. But it seems that high-budget racing-engine builders and manufacturers would try this out. I'm curious as to why they haven't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Problem with that theory is in the past, Ford turned to the aftermarket. On limited numbers like the 03 04 Cobra they went to Manley h-beam rods and Mahl pistons. The rods came with arp 2000 bolts.
Full rotating assembly good for 950hp. I have worked on 2 of these motors and seen them for myself. Blows me away. Yet they do a complete "race motor" for a very limited car and powder rods.
Just doesn't add up. Good news is, next week I will be at SEMA. Damn well will ask Ford about this! I am starting work at LET <Leading Edge Tuning> next week and will be part of there extreme GT350 build.
We have some big things planed for the car. Will be modifying tune first, followed by testing a prototype nitrous system, then pulling the nitrous and going with a prototype supercharger. Plan on leaving the supercharger on the car.
We will be making some 1/4 passes, posting dyno results, and it will be at the Texas Mile. Come on Ford, tell us they are Forged rods!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Saw a Ford Co. video interviewing the engineers of the gt 350. They stated the con rods were forged with fractured end caps similar to the gt and gt 500. Not powder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
So I have been doing a lot of research on the internals. I see Ford used Mahl pistons, forged crank, and what appears to be powdered rods.
What the heck Ford? It can be seen on the cutaway motor. Did they just grab some rods for mock up and then go to something else in production?
I sure hope Ford went to some better rods like the old terminator motors. Surely they know people are going to push these motors to the limit.
Anyone have any insight on this? Please tell me I am wrong!!
Go watch the video of the gt 350 breaking 12 sec qtr. mile run.
When it ends, a group of videos will pop up. Open the one with the young lady in front of the black R model. It is a video of the engineers for the gt 350 and there is a segment on the internal components including forged con rods.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am not sure where that video is. Can you provide a link please.
I was at Sema and spoke with a motorsports guy. He confirmed it was a pm rod. I then went to speak with Trip Manley about the rods. As I was talking with him, the lead engine engineer for Ford Motorsports walked up. The engineer, Manley, and I spoke about the rods in great detail. They are for sure pm rods, sad as it is. The good news is, Manley can modify the 5.0 rods to work in the 5.2
Requires a different rod bushing and to angle cut the small end. I have an email into Manley now about what it would take to get a set.

On another note. PRI is net month, there should be a release of more info and upgrades to the GT350 then. Will be interesting to see.
Meanwhile, we will be working on 93 and E85 tunes. ARH is currently working on some long tube headers for us. Leading Edge Tuning in Houston should be offering them soon.




Go watch the video of the gt 350 breaking 12 sec qtr. mile run.
When it ends, a group of videos will pop up. Open the one with the young lady in front of the black R model. It is a video of the engineers for the gt 350 and there is a segment on the internal components including forged con rods.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Okay, so I reviewed the video. In the video, he states "fracture split cap" So to clarify, what we have is a use of engineering terms. See, powdered metal rods are technically forged.
So to an engineer, stating forged rods... it is correct. To the average car guys like us, it is incorrect. To a true car guy, forged rods would be a 2 piece forging, 4340 steel and machined to fit. Also, notice the absence of a balancing pad on the cap. Another sign it is a powdered metal "forged" rod. We picked up the GT350 from the dealer last night. On the GT350 brochure it states forged rods also. Now, these may be an upgrade from the standard pm rods, who knows. Guess we won't know the real limits until someone tosses it out the side of the block!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
Okay, so I reviewed the video. In the video, he states "fracture split cap" So to clarify, what we have is a use of engineering terms. See, powdered metal rods are technically forged.
So to an engineer, stating forged rods... it is correct. To the average car guys like us, it is incorrect. To a true car guy, forged rods would be a 2 piece forging, 4340 steel and machined to fit. Also, notice the absence of a balancing pad on the cap. Another sign it is a powdered metal "forged" rod. We picked up the GT350 from the dealer last night. On the GT350 brochure it states forged rods also. Now, these may be an upgrade from the standard pm rods, who knows. Guess we won't know the real limits until someone tosses it out the side of the block!
what I would like to know is what is the stock internals rated at before they go "boom"

My 07 GT500 was rated around 750 hp before you started stressing the internals


don
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
Should be good for about 750 HP, read this article, it gives a lot of good information about the stock Voodoo engine comparing it to making big HP.
There is a lot of good facts you don't hear in most reviews. Probably the weakest component in the car for making more HP is the clutch.
http://www.fordnxt.com/tech-stories/engine/kenne-bell-creates-a-four-digit-capable-5-2-liter-engine/

And there is nothing detrimental in using powdered metal technology in the connecting rods, those that assume it is an inferior process are wrong.
We use PM materials in the tool and die industry and they are superior materials. Read this for reference:
http://www.dragzine.com/news/howards-racing-components-explains-dense-forged-powdered-metal-rods/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
Thanks for the feed back and sorry for the late responce back

don
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top