A/C Issues?

22939 Views 43 Replies 19 Participants Last post by jamesrobba, Dec 7, 2018

HotLap

Discussion Starter · May 7, 2018

All did a 300 mile trip this weekend over the Ridge Route (I5) to see my dad and had some hijinks going in with the A/C. I'd be cruising in 6th and downshift and get on it a bit going up steep inclines (and passing Camaro's, etc.). While I realize that most car's A/C units will cut out under WOT and re-engage once WOT condition is released, my A/C would not blow cool air again for at least 10 minutes after each cut-out? It was between 85 -90 deg. outside temp and I was cruising at a steady 80mph (mostly in 6th) - wanted to see what kind of mileage I could get and did manage 22.2mpg.

This morning en route to gym it came right on and worked fine...anyone else notice this? thx!

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RyanSterling1966

· #2 · May 7, 2018

OMG YES!!!!! I was literally about to post the same thing. I went in to work on Saturday morning and out of nowhere the AC was blowing hot at me. It is now at the dealership and after a bit of googling I am seriously not happy about my prospects. Some people have had the condenser replaced 4 TIMES and once it is out of warranty Ford tells you to go EFF yourself. Even if they have had to fix it several times before. I know this probably seems extreme but I after reading the link below I am having serious second thoughts about my purchase. This is not my "fun" car. That's my 66' this is my I need to get to work and I need it to be reliable car. And the one I traded in (a jeep) only ever needed oil changes since 2015.

Mine also seems to work when it's cooler outside. But I bet when you try it this afternoon with the car hot from the sun it blows hot at you. Wish I had better news, read below at your own risk.....

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62682&highlight=evaporator

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DTorres31

· #3 · May 8, 2018

My car did that last month, and it kept getting worse. I heard the whining first, then i started feeling the warmer air on the driver side first. The passenger side stayed cold the entire time. The dealer said the compressor lost internal pressure. They replaced the compressor. Good Luck!!

JimT

· #4 · May 8, 2018

HotLap said:
All did a 300 mile trip this weekend over the Ridge Route (I5) to see my dad and had some hijinks going in with the A/C. I'd be cruising in 6th and downshift and get on it a bit going up steep inclines (and passing Camaro's, etc.). While I realize that most car's A/C units will cut out under WOT and re-engage once WOT condition is released, my A/C would not blow cool air again for at least 10 minutes after each cut-out? It was between 85 -90 deg. outside temp and I was cruising at a steady 80mph (mostly in 6th) - wanted to see what kind of mileage I could get and did manage 22.2mpg.

This morning en route to gym it came right on and worked fine...anyone else notice this? thx!

Brad, I am sure the A/C system has protection circuits which monitor Freon High and Low side pressures. Usually a two sided switch, one which will turn off system if you loose Freon (to protect from damage) and one that looks for over pressure which also will shut off system. I would suspect a warm day and spirited acceleration up the grape vine can cause upper limits of system to possibly engage. Many times it takes a key cycle to bring system back, but this is at times normal function.
I would not worry about Ford Effing you after 4 repair attempts, that gets you Buy-back in California and Ryan should know that.

The time to worry his when you hear noise from the Compressor during operation. This could be bad.

RyanSterling1966

· #5 · May 8, 2018

JimT said:
Brad, I am sure the A/C system has protection circuits which monitor Freon High and Low side pressures. Usually a two sided switch, one which will turn off system if you loose Freon (to protect from damage) and one that looks for over pressure which also will shut off system. I would suspect a warm day and spirited acceleration up the grape vine can cause upper limits of system to possibly engage. Many times it takes a key cycle to bring system back, but this is at times normal function.
I would not worry about Ford Effing you after 4 repair attempts, that gets you Buy-back in California and Ryan should know that.

The time to worry his when you hear noise from the Compressor during operation. This could be bad.

The fact that I bought it used and out of State may complicate any sort of buyback. Which is part of my concern, plus there is something very disconcerting about a car needing to have it's entire dash removed before I have even made my first payment on it. I will operate in good faith and give them the opportunity to make it right. But, as of right now, I am afraid I bought a financial time bomb. And, frankly reading how others have been treated by Ford on the matter just honestly disappoints me in them as a company.

On the bright side, it means I have an excuse to drive the fastback to work this week!

HotLap

Discussion Starter · #6 · May 8, 2018

Ryan/JT thanks to you both for your input. So far so good, no noise and worked fine yesterday afternoon (around town) in the 89 deg. heat. I have no noise(s) coming from the compressor either. I'm going to keep monitoring it and will report back if anything changes.

Ryan, sorry to hear about your issue and curious, were you driving normal or spirited when your AC started blowing hot air? Given the apparent lack of communication between the factory and Ford dealership service depts., I'm wondering if this is a normal condition...still I wouldn't think it would cycle off for such a lengthy amount of time due to a short WOT condition...engine was not overheating at all...

RyanSterling1966

· #7 · May 8, 2018

Mine went out while it was sitting. Worked when parked, not when I started it back up. And I hadn't driven it hard since the weekend previous when I took it to Malibu. The Evap seems to be a well documented issue and is known at the corporate and dealership level. In fact, the tech doing mine is confident he can knock it out in a day because he has had to do so many of them. If that tells you anything.

However in my research it seems as though it's not JUST the evaporator that goes bad. People have been having issues with compressors and condensers as well as the blend servo. It also seems as though they have gone through to my knowledge at least 3 design versions of the evaporator at least. (purely based on their changing part numbers) I'm still trying to figure out exactly what it is that is causing them to leak. Is it welds breaking or something? I would like to understand the problem so that I can do my best to future proof it or come up with my own solution. Honestly if this happens out of warranty and Ford does tell me to shove it I plan on coming up with a different solution. For instance the AC in the s-197 was reliable. How different could the evaporator itself be. Not the full box, but just the radiator itself. Between OEM and my old vendors from when I had my shop I am more than sure I can find or have a reliable one made and or re-welded.

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BOSS DOC

· #8 · May 9, 2018

HotLap said:
All did a 300 mile trip this weekend over the Ridge Route (I5) to see my dad and had some hijinks going in with the A/C. I'd be cruising in 6th and downshift and get on it a bit going up steep inclines (and passing Camaro's, etc.). While I realize that most car's A/C units will cut out under WOT and re-engage once WOT condition is released, my A/C would not blow cool air again for at least 10 minutes after each cut-out? It was between 85 -90 deg. outside temp and I was cruising at a steady 80mph (mostly in 6th) - wanted to see what kind of mileage I could get and did manage 22.2mpg.

This morning en route to gym it came right on and worked fine...anyone else notice this? thx!

5 months after getting mine, I had the A/C intermittently go out. Turned out to be a faulty low pressure sensor. It was replaced and no problem since.

HellOnWheels

· #9 · May 10, 2018

Oh let me tell you about Ford...The first issue my car had happened as soon as I drove it home the first time. The e brake kept popping up while driving. The dealer took it in and I hardly saw the car again most of last year. They ordered me a brake system I didn't need and I was like, really? Not Brembo? What's wrong with you?

Back and forth with them so many times and me knowing more than they did, I took it to another dealer for second opinion. The open recall had never been fixed. The car had charging problems, the piston slap is beyond explanation, electrical, front brake drag, the list goes on. Dealer techs have made so many scuffs and scratches on the car it's disgusting.

December 2017 started the process of the reacquired vehicle program through Ford's third party Concentrix. These people sent me an email saying they would contact me further and then disappeared. I will try to make this short...I had to write several letters directly to Ford Corp., call all of the supervisors and numbers I could find to bug the living crap out of them. I finally filed with my state's attorney general's office. Ford offered to buy my car back at a 10K loss. I said fine then stand behind your build and extend my bumper to bumper warranty. It is now May 2018 after filing a complaint and bugging them so they just wanted me to go away, I finally have an added 3 year bumper to bumper.

I love the car but it has more personalities than I can name. So finicky I'm almost afraid to track it. I don't look forward to the A/C thing. I hope you all have better luck than I've had. Enjoy 'em while they last.

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RyanSterling1966

· #10 · May 10, 2018

So I spent the entire morning on the phone with Ford. Wow, just wow! Kinda good news and kinda bad news. The original owner of my car apparently purchased and extended warranty, some of which is apparently transferable to me. So yay! Here's where it gets super strange in my opinion. They refuse to send me any sort of documentation of that fact. I spoke to 3 separate departments and 3 different people. And, was told I am covered by premium care on everything for 4 years 48k miles. And powertrain for 10 years and 100k miles.

Which while great and all, I believe in documentation on anything and everything that may ever even possibly turn into a legal case. I understand not wanting to disclose previous owner information or anything. But the fact that they can't even send me an email breaking down exactly what sort of coverages I have is mind boggling to me. If the warranty is transferable then legally it's mine now, correct? Ford's answer is.......... Well it belongs to the vehicle. And the vehicle belongs to...... Exactly. LOL

I also found out from my dealer that the vehicle has been in for AC work before and they had to replace one of the hard lines because of a leak. I'm weighing my options as far as extending the service plan even farther vs. just getting out of the car. It's great, but as I have said before, this isn't my "fun" car. It's my commuter car as ridiculous an idea as that may have been.

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17snake

· #11 · May 11, 2018

Damn... reading these stories makes me wonder WTF is Ford doing... making a car that is enjoyable in a way and then forget about the customers. On top of that, dealerships gouges the consumers. Although I am a Shelby fan, I have no problem switching brands. If the competitors offer something better, I will most likely jump to it. Brad, I did not experience any A/C issue yet and you know I rev the living F*** and abuse the crap out of mine, but the A/C still works fine. I still have my 13 S197 GT and I had to replace the condenser last year after the warranty ran out...lol

Gamecock

· #12 · May 15, 2018

It's not the evaporator. It's a control system. They car thinks it's in an over temperature condition, so it cuts out the A/C. There is an air conditioning compressor relay, so it would be real easy electronically to stop it.

I've been having a problem for a week. With the arrival of hot weather. Sunny and 95 degrees.

Once last week, then three times in last three days. Left car in parking areas. Came back, and when I started the car, the A/C would not come on. Twice, after driving a few miles at speed, I stopped, turned engine off, and restarted it after a few seconds, and A/C worked fine. Proof that it's not the A/C itself. Today, I tried turning it off twice, and neither time worked. But get this, both times today when I restarted, I got an on screen warning: 911 assist is not available. Got same warning a week ago when I was trying to get A/C to run.

No other indicators/warning lights/gauge readings to suggest there is a problem.

Oil temp seems to be a little higher than before, maybe 230 degrees.

I have no doubt A/C will work fine tomorrow AM. Afternoon, if it gets to 90 again, it will conk out.

I'm afraid the service managers and techs at Ford dealerships don't have the intellect required to solve this one. Replacing a compressor is just fixing at it. It is a control problem.

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Gamecock

· #13 · May 15, 2018

A couple of items from the owners manual:

'If the engine reaches a preset
over-temperature condition, the engine
automatically switches to alternating
cylinder operation. Each disabled cylinder
acts as an air pump and cools the engine.
When this occurs, your vehicle will still
operate. However:
• The engine power will be limited.
• This will disable the air conditioning
system.'

'The air conditioning may also cycle on and
off during severe operating conditions to
protect overheating of the engine. When
the engine coolant temperature decreases
to a normal operating temperature, the air
conditioning will turn on once again.'

A/C behavior is consistent with over temperature condition, though none of the other symptoms appear.

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JimT

· #14 · May 15, 2018

Gamecock said:
A couple of items from the owners manual:

'If the engine reaches a preset
over-temperature condition, the engine
automatically switches to alternating
cylinder operation. Each disabled cylinder
acts as an air pump and cools the engine.
When this occurs, your vehicle will still
operate. However:
• The engine power will be limited.
• This will disable the air conditioning
system.'

'The air conditioning may also cycle on and
off during severe operating conditions to
protect overheating of the engine. When
the engine coolant temperature decreases
to a normal operating temperature, the air
conditioning will turn on once again.'

A/C behavior is consistent with over temperature condition, though none of the other symptoms appear.

As I said before, this sounds like a protection circuit for the A/C, brought to you by Ford. All manufactures do this now, don’t think you’ll escape it by switching to a Dodge! Price out the system components, compressors are way north of $1000 ( some pushing 2), condensers $7-800, evaporator .... labor. Ford wants the system to last through the warranty period, one day or one mile out... your out. But they will protect what they have to (ie Owners manual quote above). All and all, the car has a good warranty (for a race car....).

Gamecock

· #15 · May 15, 2018

EXCEPT! Dealerships aren't in on it. They'll replace the compressors on warranty, and Ford will be stuck with reimbursing them for it.

I think we agree, JimT, that this is a control issue, and not an equipment issue.

Imagine this: you bring your car to the dealership on a hot afternoon. The A/C doesn't work. The service writer looks at it, and says, "Yep, the A/C doesn't work." So they take it in. Next morning, the put in a new compressor. When they try it, A/C works fine! So they think they fixed it.

If it gets hot again in the afternoon, you could get the identical failure again.

Gamecock

· #16 · May 15, 2018

Hanlon's Razor applies:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity."

JimT

· #17 · May 15, 2018

Gamecock said:
EXCEPT! Dealerships aren't in on it. They'll replace the compressors on warranty, and Ford will be stuck with reimbursing them for it.

I think we agree, JimT, that this is a control issue, and not an equipment issue.

Imagine this: you bring your car to the dealership on a hot afternoon. The A/C doesn't work. The service writer looks at it, and says, "Yep, the A/C doesn't work." So they take it in. Next morning, the put in a new compressor. When they try it, A/C works fine! So they think they fixed it.

If it gets hot again in the afternoon, you could get the identical failure again.

Then the faults start, the tech always adds too much compressor oil which plays havic on the pressure sensors. You comin again, they either do another. Compressor or ? And add more oil. PAG (compressor oil) oil in excess is bad, don’t start the cycle.

RyanSterling1966

· #18 · May 15, 2018

Mine and many other (the majority I believe) were simply a case of the Evaporator leaking. And there are far too many cases to be explained by anything other than a manufacturing or design defect. Frankly any item on a modern car that fails with this kind of regularity should be considered as such.

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Gamecock

· #19 · May 15, 2018

A/C made icicles this AM; wouldn't run this PM, after being parked in 85 degree parking lot.

You could be right, RyanSterling1966, but I'm convinced there is a control issue as well.

RyanSterling1966

· #20 · May 15, 2018

There very well may be, in fact a lot of people seem to be having trouble with the blend servo as well. My point more was that clearly the issues are at the manufacturer/vendor level. And not any sort of operator error or servicing error. In fact it looks like it's been going on as long as the S550 chassis has been around. All of which I am "fine" with so to speak. What I take issue with is Ford knowing that the issue was of their fault and still letting customers foot the bill to repair it. Particularly on a model that is a bit of a brand Halo and inarguably inspires more brand loyalty than any other vehicle in their lineup. And, yes I believe it does that more so than the F-150. How many people do you know that have only ever owned ONE mustang? And then they commute in a focus, wife drives an explorer etc etc etc......

My long rambling point is, that burning customers on this model in particular is a dangerous game to play with your brand equity and people's loyalty. I work in advertising, it's something I think about and deal with on a daily basis. And, I can assure you the amount of money it would cost to do right by your customers is less than the media spend to repair a diminished brand affinity and win back customers that you burned.

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